"We are the sickest country in the world; that's why we had to fire people at the CDC. They did not do their job."
Those were the words used by Health and Human Services Secretary Robert F. Kennedy Jr. to explain to the Senate Finance Committee today the recent turmoil at the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC), where thousands of people have either been fired and resigned. Among the fired is Susan Monarez, PhD, the director who was removed last week after engaging in a contentious back-and-forth with Kennedy about her role and tenure.
"I asked her, are you a trustworthy person? And she said 'no,' " Kennedy told Massachusetts Senator Elizabeth Warren when asked why he asked Monarez to resign last week. In an op-ed published today in The Wall Street Journal, Monarez said Kennedy had asked her to pre-approve vaccine recommendations from the CDC's Advisory Committee on Immunization Practices (ACIP) after Kennedy installed several notable anti-vaccine members.
I asked her, are you a trustworthy person? And she said 'no.'
"So you're saying she's lying," said Warren.
"She's lying," Kennedy said. Kennedy also told Oregon Senator Ron Wyden he never asked Monarez to pre-approve anything. Both Warren and Wyden, as well as Georgia Senator Raphael Warnock—all Democrats—during the hearing asked Kennedy to resign.
In her op-ed, Monarez said Kennedy asked her to pre-approve ACIP decisions ahead of a planned September 18-19 meeting. "It is imperative that the panel's recommendations aren’t rubber-stamped but instead are rigorously and scientifically reviewed before being accepted or rejected," she wrote. "I was fired for holding that line."
Kennedy attacks CDC over COVID-19 response
The meeting began with Kennedy addressing the $50 billion in rural healthcare funding included in President Donald Trump's "Big Beautiful Bill," but the hearing quickly turned toward questions about the CDC, vaccines, and the goals of MAHA, or the Make America Healthy Again, community.
During the 3-hour meeting, Kennedy continued to say the CDC had failed to protect Americans during the COVID-19 pandemic, citing high American death tolls as proof the agency did not have American's best interest in mind. He also said the agency unnecessarily shuttered schools and small businesses with ineffective mandates.
"We were lied to about everything, natural immunity, vaccines, everything with COVID," Kennedy said, while maintaining the CDC under then-President Joe Biden had become corrupted by pharmaceutical dollars.
Muddled take on COVID-19 vaccine availability
In several confusing exchanges, Kennedy evaded saying whether he thought Trump's Operation Warp Speed, which developed mRNA COVID vaccines in 9 months during the first year of the pandemic, was a success or not. Earlier this summer Kennedy cut $500 million in funding for mRNA vaccines for respiratory viruses.
During his exchange with Warren, Kennedy said every American will be able to get a new COVID-19 booster if they so desire, despite the shots no longer being recommended for most healthy adults, including healthy pregnant women.
Warren challenged Kennedy, saying pharmacies and doctor's offices are confused about the muddled recommendations (see today's CIDRAP News story).
In a heated line of questioning from Senator Bill Cassidy, MD, (R-LA), who had been the deciding vote in confirming Kennedy as HHS secretary, Cassidy said Kennedy was denying people the current COVID-19 booster. Cassidy shared emails from constituents, including doctors, describing the hoops they have to jump through to secure the vaccine even for high-risk people.
'Both things are true' about vaccines
Senator Michael Bennet (D-CO) asked Kennedy about the pediatric vaccine schedule and childhood immunizations. Kennedy said he did not believe the measles, mumps, and rubella vaccine would see any changes in the coming weeks. But throughout the hearing, Kennedy referred to the increased risk of autism in children following immunizations, and said American children now get too many vaccines compared to his childhood.
"I think parents should be free to make their own choices," he said. Numerous studies have shown no link between the childhood immunization schedule and autism rates.
Senator Tina Smith (D-MN) pressed Kennedy to offer more clarity on plans for handling immunization policy.
When were you lying, sir? When you told this committee that you were not anti-vax? Or when you told Americans that there's no safe and effective vaccine?
"When were you lying, sir? When you told this committee that you were not anti-vax? Or when you told Americans that there's no safe and effective vaccine?" Smith asked.
"Both things are true," Kennedy said.
Calls for Kennedy's resignation have grown louder in recent weeks, and a new poll yesterday showed just 1 in 4 Americans trust Kennedy with medical advice. Forty-eight percent of people in the Economist/YouGov poll said they distrust him; 51% of respondents said they trust the CDC.
